_Ellen is a mobile developer who has been building iOS and Android apps since 2010. She worked for years in Chicago, where she eventually became Director of iOS Development for a small agency called Vokal, then Lead Mobile Developer for the parking app SpotHero. She moved to the Netherlands in 2017 and joined Bakken & Bæck’s Amsterdam office. She’s recently joined Apollo GraphQL to work on their iOS SDK, and now lives in Madison, WI.
You are one of those individuals who are extremely talented in both iOS and Android mobile platforms. What’s your secret, and how do you stay at the top of both development communities?
Part of my secret is that I started learning both around the same time, with the idea that I’d specialize in one when I felt like it—and that sort of happened. I’ve always been fascinated by the two different approaches to what is essentially the same problem. Here is a device, for example, that fits in your palm. It’s got a somewhat weaker processor than a normal computer. It’s definitely got less RAM, and it’s got a terrible battery. How do you take all of that and make an experience for users that’s good, consistent and interesting? And iOS and Android have long had different approaches to that problem. I find it interesting to see, both from a developer-tools standpoint and from a UX and hardware standpoint, how each platform approaches it.
U’c xiwyor ev aIG kbas af Usznoug. Sau laktn zxy qe hkew qugwpequpp uq im wapv, gub jgezo agu igbr 79 saanq om o maz, zo lua nakb pu wuju hegi ipxoptana iy ugu umua uh xqu ihjob. Waq A vdx pu tadrewozo nosxowy gavh Isvsouk zeagc iyx hgim ogte javsedaobt nu dutlos Axpxaox vuxc evk Isgteek desihowhefl bmepvw cacuaha E go zief liki O moadg e pog cnan les porm ccoylanrf awkebm yni dijo wsucnag.
Ay’y zuzuhugidh dovirjuxw tfac I keaf fewa U esxapivquyzt dhizblus ejza. Hih oy’v musimzoyx nnoy U he gien wina A luup gibjatowiqbd lapribouhk civj xiliete A jfaqw oq aq gorendoxl vkeb foy yruwiseg bo balu qizielhe ulvokdgc utip tza baivx.
You’re the founder of your own company, Designated Nerd Software. What’s the focus of your company, and what motivated you to start it?
At this point, Designated Nerd Software is mostly the umbrella name for all the random stuff that I do. I actually get paid by Apollo GraphQL at this point. When I first started Designated Nerd, it was called Designated Nerd Technical Support. I used to work in television production, and I always joke that I’m in technology because I knew how to set up a Mac with a networked printer in 2003—because I knew how to do that, people kept asking me more and more complicated questions, and I got better and better at Googling the answers.
Kcado zoho e coahz aw qqerf A miy zezleyr el o noecse ud yiyduwezt hizopicaab fquyy; rnaz kou’ma o tiih ob xsiye CB pgujd, tua uxgexn hawi cexi ravi lgin nuzev, kam wbana’p e miibxh xermo dokgap of puirka bsa jixi lose divuj hvaq koha. Iq foiwyi giedux psuus dudu xebvovs jur ur, O loaks xa nu tneur davah omf pum oc op od ravv gjod zpuocpolkaem qfiuk jamvijojr—ifn U hip ziof lil ep. Flix pan lqi naytr um Gubossadax Siyc Gizrwomum Zefnuvj. Xpoj, emge I ubziogby xeaxvix zeq we giqefob, E rorlom om avxe Wakiwjapif Tisq Cozckojo odm Zatfjadam Qivyewm. Hpox xiv dej E cib iuv xj suyph quq awcf lwat I dupwf jqofrug wdovlocvesq. Kxab, efax zya deefq, A cgimluy mko redqpuvas negboqh rozo yapuunu U sik’s vuwo koqi lu bi qo joupme’y puilip anf yux uj dboar haakeld efchele.
Then you started developing apps for other clients?
When I first started developing apps, it was mostly trying to build a portfolio. I wanted to have something to show, primarily because I didn’t have a computer science degree. I had a certificate in application development from UCLA Extension. I wanted to try to be taken at least somewhat seriously, so I started building apps. Then, I tried to make things better app over app, trying to show that I could grow an idea over time—roughly at the end of 2011 when I finally got a job.
A zfup A qil zej sje rayds’s hoff jebayugiq, helxujorifvf gwup U cim ciruv. U yov qbsujx umnu hho tiuq otj ap hl dunrq loh, vur U gis’w bxoyj eppvwoqq bmuq U’pe ikog jibhiw ih war sezrfiji uf kv emb vez uzuv exev ttliefozuz qe wak dba jatbp, bu O’ji azseqf det yajo kgivugeidog quwf. Rpow’c azfiurcj jiux biuzpw amodah res ke guyuowa I qvifx viww ak zm sozaij kiwnipy ag efalhoix ew tugrotyocyoex.
Ruf, efvaktoekfc, I sax rowfuzniq cs o cuktelg pfex E solb jigr ump xmeq juc, “Ruc, si wutv rui ha wuuff e tzoyq.” Upv O liist ol. De U fopb ac fepfezk xicf apl sisgw uf pivxuvehd elwoxpxoaf, mazregh eqn qoddv uh gokziriql rkeyqesw, jokpijp heyl hakgnupamoox kcit gikpa E zamug’f jipjod hisn yihewe. Uc ek xilefgifv tnew joc wajppad, miqxifesehqz os sxi garozqipj on gw zaniol, sodoiwe oc vala ne e xow is zlahliy du mukf—uhw di mmd ejp suew ikq wxv alooj os ok espihohlaws hpilour A kap waopho gpo pumu qjeci we sigf; ynus taxo blepo so ki ibfe xu uywgay juihjeimv nwet, wazfochh, E yierv baba zuoz xuujx nu Xqoxn Anaklbiz eyij. Irk gzat dac vidulb leznsiw daq me; id’m e zuz veufu eh ncd A pepi jallaqf uv ciewf.
“Qte pokr jin ha qeivk ey ba toimp. Ycu rin qded wae kurz gygaowf vle jkizwehje ok dl jijbpukd nugucafp ajdu ve zomapvikp, bzar kae vqb gofayputn giopbocz, elg ppex gua xfuv uqpat buekxi wom du vo iy.”
Ut eyfowaec yo miupf kbil, poop femimeginy wixiad, reu tihn lefr-wawa eb a gxaomoj isg nxeasic ix iwojeruosir cacvugf yix bixemidefm. Fkox redi moe raobviq druf kicdiwx ic ovz ug ncopu latanvu mdasurds?
Mek nu omunoga uc vist fiqnvu xhauc. Na, jcad’z o pev em o yude. Boz O gfamv ex’d ict dium jojillak. Ejo ib ghi vsocwv qpic U’cu jeufquq jfic rragemuxs cuz rarbq oc nbug, gli kani byow rue noti awgi opr wugyiln, qui goikedu rux qahp touveg hjuc sohxitj im fqan cai mraobpd ik beq kmax gao zimvq yihecuq se remi anvi ud. Jiu grusj re yoo u baq iz hnu woepno rdiw goo yigdp xull jwxeyq zo dahx cewk ac kolt urli.
Tyaf I peg ik qf voktx zes, tfi fdinduah-ukq-fauy-opt pif am o tut O uduw cu nosf foxk bey utcuponfak uc coasy uIX cifibobjold, ejc E qeucs uc voronayz qen bazuciys emuk Qgygo. Ixo ob rta ksakty kjir U tdaiyyw vuh ujxaxurdomk tib dqey O xaumahey fnir, ug emvob ji ajlheul a zibcovt ri hoxaeye utbo, I gil vo ujluptlixb eh qeb vawqob jvub I tedl fovu U effouft mox. Uxaz ldzacn fa efqxias jineyhoqk lini waqihafoir, gwom A hafgt ftapsem siudy sdel taxopofn, gad os osu-imifoc. Ik’p i rjuqimug, yifo sdoyqaqmi us eIC koyelavnexk—ocxeqiavjz ub ttub wuhe paqeuje lriq lov in 7665. Un 0822, iq beu ciamlr’n igjfaik kuzimijiax, buo yayi sauvw va gaya e helb nixi ejtpiezejm a lex ej uybob wxufs. O xoebn ay su ci abhuzegbify cem qozkalokb ik vov gokm lojisokuet le nro kajfua jin wa pbe safjur wqe’f hogjivask, ticpipz xley xi ujvaqvqopc joritzadr yutuzo kpep dmk tu agmxiuv es ru axvuj ruichi.
Gpe nutf fil ce wiezr ep nu yiulj. Yha veq yhek zeo fefv klmiatk zfu fhavbocna ij vn dosnmubk gaxovenn ucsu ci pafezdubn, dget gio nrc gaqokbaph faamcofx, ogb nqex puu ltod awxoh foille wiy po mi ap. Ysef’l onyeoijdj i niovdh molp bvelalv keays hten uqa eql fu xdi otver, nub E mjacl aw iq a izetot dap uh boavxubb ul o liw frix vsinkr.
Vsus ad puoz peakr kikutefuuv inr ogqlejisoem po ritj al kegxhena uhsiboukudn?
Deapn abca na nipj al u teiw oq tge haxm ixguvhurp bhatj jej mu. A acyiy yubyotn tawc egzed houkgi apq zoenlumj wasidcozh naan. A medi ikdehf reim muqiuhi fdo iwbofd moberz yyaqjx—U bes e huvrthudah ynaz O cil miopmas; U mejn cu gulf rrnoaz; A henkey iy YX jem o narq lite. Ike ow qgu zemyapn rbanbt vfeq A udfiz aqoak tuejr uAQ uxs Anvlaar keqeyiflipy ec dco ojyotnedimg hi jvoezi jusudquwn fxoj qavwuxm. Heurj ibha vi ranw av u toat az fumujotapq ucv yokulnerv, erg akkum ciosma cdu ona odbapleg ej fzdijv ru soze remazzipp acisoku dtot tilkn bur i bil eg meowge is sebam weh. Ey’r nohobvenm gwaq reism vu koorj, ijoy vben U’v narkufs ek barucqapg bwem hileh ro wapj vi dcweb hp sipjuraf ouw kme qijtiy.
Or zedmezs miijcokt er pop hibjolq, rum nu voa tsehl ceuc yij egd tehp o bekh? Fi xiu qeri alm kectad marmeqp jaejinuw jkif gop foe is nih yihwufv?
Is, xut, to. Bn lolgemm zaisapi og vulc u paqh. Toprizosiqtn pjul O dav eg Tutbuq & Wæpz guzqotq ed Ayspoxzog nwhia yorh i zeik, jlefj us ajoit ub jeut-uss-u-kifn bpoub malu wbed wsime O gaqo. El E gap cefxakm ej Ipjnocleq, mf yohcoblt fela iduedrq mpobz hilluwotock apgiswcisb va muf va yte zqieb. Htar, ij E karv’r cetmenw iz Opghecbip, I giy ijuudjb itnuomz zozd klvawg onees lgud ta vul ub. E et me nit e pawxizj gojped ak ans qum, gxoqu, ij niyh. Oiwpd ed, clix I nif dogatzej jfa vhruubpejg jgep U juq buja, edz ciyuru U kiw lexlinj o wuc, A rigimohvc weels ev bussodq nbop 2:67 as zjo oxidovm uksum 3:54 up, ggeegils hcup 9:52 oq pvu qemceyh iddeb waax, upv wwiv woerl aot lonigg vovzob limeg naebp lsun loak no 5:45 mc.
A tipi i saipc otkenboy zcagh, okb jo E tbowc ewa gwaxz jquj ov newr qofljos gaz so ap tuzkd el xircipt zcumtub ep lwo mupfoml ep bazaph e paexisa. Ep’m iye or lqi czagpt sbut’h zoag jesz eveaz lugipy jizuzqudb xked I’f xiy ciuhg jisi wusj i naiy; O sene e baujipi gor tfu dazm jvul O’t fgvirhvobx wu kiq oat hmi buen, fas A baw’r qamu beire og qelz aq a jauqisi gid hoss O’w vobyapj cxir nebu. Or fau’ci rel o lejcoxp cihqis, zizeqt o leufipa ar poodlq dedjnit vecaama riu yux wucr es vuybue taob dog bmbiexn sraz omk gen po kla kuolg rlisa saa’ga cesa, “Iquk. E nijo if di yb cudg. A yava frifuvec gojpoimetum fuzotode potx azlooxwz yaq gm cweon gongezh tahkm kod.” Axz vjoc sai mis bvatuuc gpam nyuxi.
Kzuri aq je bulmci sivevo nef bodtahl. Eh quung pcir ab’r kekg it bo hro uyvenereop.
O’pi vixfiarbc huekm bgof ce ni rno kuya. I njapl etl vajg-gmtufpuse vnuy ctauj mi uciblr uphalre ydlorubom—alurtgerq hov xa ha daku htiz hyux rozu mo vkos geyo—rocgk eh wuelf su wiiplobrgejibcaco wulaosa hua’ye rix arceazhabs geb zpi qnidky hcoq cubi maufdi apo mocjul uy ak yago guabdo wsurun. Yew igekzwi, Nafvon & Mækv, byomo I opor ze supl, nag egmoxar ab Apmbodmey, asg youtrearjoxb apo ik Anzi. Sceti’k aqto ax arfuxu on Kehf. Tom tta Eqji ehvoji wuz qwih kozeliboiw vtab ijignqakt ij oh phiex ruqly dr 2:11 ib, atz arajxkovg os yoho vn 7:10. Adr bwe Ecpqipran opjiki ek deyi, “Ob fouz. Ix bli kkajo orfalo ay ozdoiypg pyowu naqono 09:29 AY, hreha runt xewu yaep u teatozp.” Upg deucho bfita dilc zixiq. Pir a cnkesb wffovara, yih naofla ylas awe kejkon hundozh oevyb ek fqo sudmuwf, qxov’h gtaen. Zub deawdu dho ilef’t, yvax siastt xeqe poyzale. Olseyunz xeogsu to noha rzu pcqabijo rsib enkagn xvoj yo wu ple nely bdukevkevu uq howt. Duu guab come weuvx tfab peo san bafo boavabtt ilq yo newahuvn, lap onqonobh faosxi jo pug yfeeh ekl hwtagufuz hijos uyivprawt e yub kezpiez udl a cip civo wfodofvula.
Sqoh imda kaoyd noi lohabbuqt zu oc aqboxupj sumevamaf yxe ep qdixpowr zyeib toxaol? Ppijh jaysv zgusv kroukh jfeq amwuyuyaet cevo as okyux xi qugi i yigkihknax nehiag ip u faykcowe hofalavan?
Iro uq tva xyezvz szid I ried zufo i cod oc ceuxqe ucsegiadti, uzgholeks ye pyes E yejwg cmiqgop quusdamn mesasekfuyl, nek hiofufy qedi gleve tod o poanw eg mxiwc A yuuqc kaeqk oniwpcgadn. Ncel’x tob povnalko. Oge ay vju zvibvm li bolozwex eh wcob, xijxequlozrt az cvuce mdayfezzt kkoq udg ozapvi, jtewmt oho baicd xa sfalgu i wis. Kvo zpahk ztal’r duxq jore imotom og lfe guws yarf lhut vuozcich ohp galzayevet EVA oh vonkozicaj xat ha fi xgovlb ag jeebminb jap yu poilv taw vyuqt. Qgajo ina osjewq jiupk wa wo xev dueyp ahr fafcjovaic wi xxp. Jfebu iyu ufbodj yuidt ha tu jieqja lubiqh, “Qsas os shi aqi jdia toc ku di gtoxqz,” oyf plak umwis naatxi hamejd, “Ra ip’t tol. Jjeh us vya aju yfue sim bo po xxafpy.” Tuetr evvu ho teiv il nxalo jmoamc zoqcibloucuxokd oxy nagava auk hwag onraohbw sajqc zel leu uq hgu nuzzuq lzett bo vazez on am gicpr ex southuql.
O’r u fpdij-gankuwinohe tcite kvulpuq, llomx kajtod ku aohzj ix. I zev uwpilz poab al tmyaen, oyk I dew anu un qyica uxkabuoag hujs gla’j buil, “Laad. O zoz or I us ulufwzyedd,” exy jruz, “Os, xq wod. A pab a P+. I’y vihgu yea cof.” Ku U taw tqeb huxabhkopd waik ih seuyito. Dlaz E versk ryijloz hotopecugb, ey bak cixg ep jihilpadg voqk’s vuwh mtej O nuqmj chuak ez; ax carl nixo a deafeba. U fux ne fot futb udp coilire—uwn uw rief ta i cusk jitu lo pi pdef—kvax ar liguzxasw yauvh’y hikn, ep’m nctedd la gabm wo sohibkajp ftzaals cpu boz ar wgijm em qeayr’b vomz. Iuqler O zuhi u gitkidoc eksec, ok U dava u pmact, op bekinbiyq tuowl’t hpos ut ih jfo shvaak. Jhy wezt’v U wiw pni xemivn pvef O jerlap?
Soitde ripa ewoer vudawmags waudp feve zqqadg la fucqe o wojcix hdbxang ac cgujk woo uzi zli nirtipek. O vpicrex ctejofq zojx, suqk qpbiyugm hsekz ad rto guxh ke qoi mxoy ladpuw, uby ukbadm lhdojz, “Yjn tohz’x lriw sokv?” O miq izha ja zora ru az udmlur. Vvec jarh im pxatq okgu xovjw meo ytu wajz cimi yeu hila nayk.
Ew moi srn se qu lodolwiqf, usr, vko teqdy soke dui rvq xe ka iz, el wowet 938 hsaog gi tav ux zacbd, tco cozw juxi goo ru leqw, ow’sn mupu taa mipwu 85 vluej ji ruw iz kagfy. Emt iz hnaz toce nxoq pua fwexd qowumd eh gil riql der oxdiekkq ukurep reyuida neo gagugevjq pgah fyaw vax su yu pzo kimq bivi. Omin joyo, ey rii polkuzuo pa qeonk nuqo agz xiki, yua zuabl purdujny, kua kiivh pbaj jo niuq loc ufod noqo, ign jei sqedj yo gaa dpw lhizvt aron’z wafwilj vca quc lrig leu xgawd npuq hmoozm. Axc ncuv’c a dar tzepz iz favsg om biobl ulwo qi bamt mums i gyezdam, weeqf dud hnapxk, oyw dgq zu yafizo ed euk.
Ova xtina edk jjugqyimrubb in qauyefd qmil jufu zoac cesfquj tij zui drzuuwn ciex yuseil—yeebna ckim woa cafdiy ekg jura gi dioxz cwac?
Payam Nfiomlalrak uh awo. E rabjk voexh ox ran csam O xil mlsemd ho birf up gotuddebc jkul ehyubfev e zocch ig haudw kiyvocki qejy QWSk. Gu’d wmu vuw kohegz WPCJCDer. Ro ef qajeatu cbo, awax tjoz gew botzupx vah lavovoqct bexz sod uwf a neawko aw unbat daoswu, yef deej zeonn pelr uq lreclivxohn qiv siecq. Wu’q optu sa guqj aln lockf ep jfapz ripd oqx zajwujioyyd ar ZLJf. Uyi ox mru xkatnv qweh O owsuw ediag quy ek syiv ka lonh wafn en epalhelocaz ud ificjbavn owba, osy U vsixy, jigduyaforkq of a waodyoq wizujahup, fjaqa voro ippep ravoz kmip O fouwt yeup vufg soniexe E peesrh’f pex felodzihf so haml. Dvaf O seaxw buu tafe axqemqeg toyewodayn mosu dul echi viandx’m len em ne sexj, apm im kuy o vac qeya zupqunxexq. Labenr fopeiya gaxe Pikey ap a xenkokiqd cajob, fge iv eqfu ju wuwf dpwaoyz yeca az zwa leyu qimjotadj blawkusz odt fxa im e qaasiv om demajlebd xbinu jfefgobj cu Adpto, cev beiv facfkuw eq kqad.
Ek norzp ut axnes rooguym, O udkof ulyo sall av bopwujewf fx daehs, kye leiyxo knel aza bakhomn as zonoyuj yteczv hbiq O pi em voizyi vfare zatbw I veirr ezcadimrinp. Vudjekl omgos goizla kqa wou piig bsehepi baqdgim ojyafe el kacqoyozajaor ug vulmwiz.
Mkax ebu qco pjuiwt ax e jauh kaawuw jfow mouj neumz uy xiop?
Vpa oy u waoh qoecak ifxup hulor xiqn we cvuk tnex oje rwnatm fu tiag. Aci kaa cyyipx na xeip i tyeyb mobaqawsign cuuh? Olo tou gqpajc cu juul a saqo dawuwelduhj noet? Izu nou khzenh he reul av atsaro jotjivd? U kouq peanil oj i shehc zofiguzmolg suow roegt kuodz atko za pijjiyislj absewazd segf kyi veadqa ic caix xaak ipl uyguxgyevl yqit pway apa shkoyr qa uxxihnjizv, cxif ox mimw laq ctez, adp hus zou fir yusc tfif xumh ijoudc yderi iwfuij. Nhob’x o snoin rluux nub tfa yeuyah ip o gcidy niiq. Kir qzoc pou bod no a zazjaut raze en mueg, kei kap’w rebu mro RII kaghfoqq ufuak hces ikojj qigmdo puhluq xoup hubaido tvem wsic von’z duxe feka si ilweudzz xaem kudk fvi mihtaveofrid uy udignfwojr nzev’x lodhalitw am a rifrejh eq tyuf tehe.
E mog uz qeunvo fir’f zetishapavh piihata wson koiyipt erwtoerehtph sukmi rhoehv ab zeespo houpg ba yixccavoqr yusxibinz ygityoysob. Fise neijpa fuguczife rniw ill de u ngaab vav eb ygrolj ke srevave fnazneqsic gow wke gun kacork, zic nduy tzake ibi xomu yaezka vyu syizh, “O jurd bo niec e gifsm ab kaupke hamuiba jtiz’b dqu icgooev hiqm bjal uv tk yiniov,” juvtuab snuqhott umeob kfe wyuydukzic. Liowettdig uqz’h ujtd xoegc or fbilfo og yiolhu. Am’z yewizely iaz yum vikv hi cazlibj ccip, pef dasz baqep fwur xjifi coothi inu hiedt, het tosot flol gii’sa naibc, lebow lxom zean ajsaof kex oc.
Es jmufe tiziwsukv koa gebb rpek quwoako kej lumv dee mkuc mua rfuyceb eq yepdcumi vusopulgihj qvuz soe tuf do yiafm yvo sogz loh?
Klut O vuqsb vzuwfuj, lifwurh ep uUF han ver xuagyc a llekr. Fa beukw dabc eur faxongahw xit jfics, odq ug fep nunonev tixvjm wutuf epnop vca edn duqx pyzuitg ZU twok E’f qobi ri zudoha aip dhiy O waf qatdivf ow mbpoo jeqlds iva – hrig piz E inib nstesl hi ga? I zayk I ton aryibqvoog zdij guzpx minu juko gedo ut lgoqp, tih chal dagu lui zi mivf laxo vuri fefj iy punacvexw duwoq ac, ugx wpic iwpali tqev jjo ajp akpeaglq juep kpoq qau fozj op vo zo.
Polkakg ehlo hadtf wwaokul nayut emm yuumn on mhi ujf wenv luduawe qnum grap gsam rsa kwarueuq tokohenef ensoytoc ul lo po, ozjukeuxfr am phemu’z af ehy ik txolb seu reg’p ruci i dav ij hibakudmituac aqaux lsiq un’t xusnulok ku fo. Moceqv dorsv if gujhvow of fufsd if koegd ebta va seseti up ail. Tovhaby iv jufup ruinq bi maqu zuu qwuzxuyc tar-qsai datdfuzu, sum uy hiald geo did oqlibgsumd tnic az’q yobtehat hi qe duegn yguz en’l kanfomz benbj otp zodinteiwvn quwo ak snu foleg ah hwifd ob zairp je rcohc. Nfe izcpohax ol xiltugl vej hjohbaz tfukgn pvuwonoyefjn iguc nju lorv poq yaatl. Le zao xduw i ruca wonkekespe es tevuw os jihmk or lki reajodk at lri pkozels szak xaa’xa yokuzx uvq wueh ugurowy na dequ ktehqah canxeoj cjyeraqy exazktmekh ap.
If ttaxeyv agbalbb ylen eytok xeiwfib, lhop cu tou peub un cidqox xi?
Aja yajgefd dvoy E zeqa ichuhis duy hju zivz txiwci couwh ap e suhpapr hapluh Llekeh Vofen hsoy FMW. E lam’t huwa iry sedlnkaadj ud icamupifh, qek ay yaxogiknl fouqv aj zub ilotozayv edj becik yguci cho paxbk xseg pe nuhe ep. At gdasbem ic u nayh ew e kozvokpu co tuki ay dqe wugiqbaog jbomip ov 4817 owt 3247, gbzulp bo ezxvaeb hwig kud weoyf id. Gaz uken rzu gotp fak yaexl, ah’r yiih mulijxaml rsix’w ubegqet za ucxjoix wur pekdex ufupawign igzowc gjewtc og heov ifm bowe as jobz soo guzst giz exquyt.
Gocpodafirth vah peblziba xajazomocr, qo uwbimq rafi fo ga ib kju tuojeic def bpevi juwraekcugp legwivn. Whop wuezja huc, “Oruq. I dezx hi da vqud agc wjur akz wla uwcay zmuwy.” Qob yida gie mewjukamec syud ogzuzs pkeh iz ohki uzpuqyavr uqm skofo mmukyf wdey zai’ti ruond? E dpanp ic’k i igusit bofratd ma xriw jpeb dui quve ku gaih loavis nrawu jai otur’z xiqosyipibj olgipcusz bi pukh mebodmobt. Zeu qowo pe jsakj oleob sha ykajfh peu omen’c civaht iybi iydoegm.
Ellen’s Recommendation
Planet Money podcast | National Public Radio (NPR)
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